tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-688820610845171516.post6407558056160533659..comments2024-03-06T11:28:56.480-07:00Comments on Just Genesis : St John Chrysostom on Eve's SinAlice C. Linsleyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13069827354696169270noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-688820610845171516.post-29809755029812722762017-09-01T08:36:12.111-07:002017-09-01T08:36:12.111-07:00Eric, That is a very interesting theory! It suppor...Eric, That is a very interesting theory! It supports the idea that the woman was confused by the serpent. Indeed, demonic forces attempt to confuse us all the time. <br /><br />It is also likely that women filter information differently. Have you read Carol Gilligan's book In a Different Voice? I recommend it.Alice C. Linsleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13069827354696169270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-688820610845171516.post-44782932062183052252017-07-23T10:34:17.238-07:002017-07-23T10:34:17.238-07:00From details of her temptation, it doesn't se...From details of her temptation, it doesn't seem that she could be blamed for anything except ignorance of the proper law.<br /><br />“We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”<br /><br />Compare this with what God actually said: <br /><br />And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”<br /><br />And you can see where the problem is. Taking information from Eve's recount of the law, we can tell that she doesn't know what either of the trees are (she only notes one that is in the middle of the garden) and she thinks that the tree is just outright dangerous (she can't touch it apparently). This is different than what God said to Adam and conveys different information (the original law places the danger of the tree of knowledge in its nature and contents and it promises a certain death, Eve's version just simply notes that it is dangerous to the touch and doesn't note how certain dearth is if you eat it) so it even puts to question whether God told her the law directly or, if he did, whether she actually understood it. Add the fact that nothing happened after she ate it and you can safely conclude that Eve was ignorant of her sin. I don't think that she sinned for the lack of anything except knowledge. She didn't know about this fruit in the middle of the garden, she didn't know why she couldn't touch it, she didn't know what about it would kill her, and after hearing from a trustworthy source about it, she didn't know what would be the harm in listening to someone else. And that lack of knowledge was reflected in her lack of shame after eating it and her quickness to share it with her husband. She didn't know what she did was wrong until after Adam ate it. Ericnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-688820610845171516.post-17532526358202197942017-07-13T13:57:26.985-07:002017-07-13T13:57:26.985-07:00Timothy, the ancients thought of the cosmos as a p...Timothy, the ancients thought of the cosmos as a pyramid. Eve was the crown of creation, the last to be created. The pyramid is turned upside down when the crown is cast beneath the feet of the serpent - a ground crawler. So the effect of Eve's disobedience is the inversion of the natural order of creation. <br /><br />We discuss these matters and many more at the international Facebook forum The Bible and Anthropology. You might want to join that group.<br />https://www.facebook.com/groups/970693143031228/<br />Alice C. Linsleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13069827354696169270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-688820610845171516.post-73819742514324609352015-12-14T16:24:09.527-07:002015-12-14T16:24:09.527-07:00The rungs of the ladder is a fascinating analogy t...The rungs of the ladder is a fascinating analogy to describe the serpent's violation of the order of creation.<br /><br />God > Adam > Eve > Serpent.<br /><br />But the Serpent tries to subject Eve, who in turn subjects Adam by giving the fruit to him as well, who all three end trying to subject God unto them... but none of it worked out!<br /><br />Though I recognize this hierarchy structure in the Bible, it gets a little bit confusing where Genesis is concerned. The first chapter puts the order like this Animals > Adam & Eve. While Genesis 2 puts the order like this Adam > Animals > Eve. I'm not sure in which respect I'm supposed to understand the creation order, in regards to hierarchy aside from the Creator being above the creation, and Man being the head of the woman ... which we get from the New Testament and some OT passages as well.<br /><br />-TimAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11140933702909323100noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-688820610845171516.post-41913646490078458382012-10-04T17:15:50.879-07:002012-10-04T17:15:50.879-07:00Landon \ - Another interesting piece would include...Landon \ - Another interesting piece would include the addition to the law on Eve's part "nor even touch it". What would of happened if let's say Adam was tending the garden, triped and touched the fruit? Eve i think is a symbol of Israel aswell as the bride, just as Yashua was a type of adam. We see Israel also added to the law and in doing so made it void.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-688820610845171516.post-7613909605870616642012-08-09T17:39:09.790-07:002012-08-09T17:39:09.790-07:00Abshalom,
Peace!
It is not possible to answers a...Abshalom,<br /><br />Peace!<br /><br />It is not possible to answers all your excellent questions. Theologians and great thinkers have pondered them through the ages.<br /> <br />Here is what I think, for what it may be worth. The ancients found a hierarchy in the order of creation. Hawah was the final act of divine creation and she was lovely and essential to the man's welfare - that he might not be alone, but be in a loving relationship. Think of a pyramid. She is at the top and the animals that slither along the ground are at the opposite extreme. The serpent (as an image of the rebellion against the Creator) seeks to invert the pyramid so that he is at the pinnacle. The best way to do that is to have the crown submit to him.Alice C. Linsleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13069827354696169270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-688820610845171516.post-39627708495015523052012-08-09T09:43:30.464-07:002012-08-09T09:43:30.464-07:00Alice, i find your short pieces entirely interesti...Alice, i find your short pieces entirely interesting and they have helped me in my understanding of the Abraham Story as i have begun to implement Isaiah 51:1-2 in my studies. <br />Thank you.<br />My question is if:"The reason the serpent approaches Eve rather than Adam has nothing to do with an inherent flaw in the woman. Instead the answer rests in the Tempter's character as one who desires to tarnish the crown of God's creation. Lucifer hates "the Woman" (Gen. 3:15) who as the Mother of God brought forth the Son who crushes the serpent's head"<br />Then did Elohim Yahuwah know that Adama and Hawah was going to fall. Then why were they created in the first place.<br />Why would there be a need for a chosen people or man (Elohim Plan)back then, if Adama and Hawah were both perfect. Did Heiylel know that there was need for a chosen people or man to bring about salvation.<br />I personally see the temptation of Hawah as just a crime of opportunity by Heiylel, and not that he hates women or specifically targets her. As a result of his success, Elohim placed a plan into action.<br />I would love to hear your thoughts on these questions<br /><br />AbshalomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-688820610845171516.post-56470281621407537782011-08-28T10:15:21.536-07:002011-08-28T10:15:21.536-07:00YT, You are right and you've provided a lovely...YT, You are right and you've provided a lovely meditation on our failure to love God above all things.<br /><br />Disobedience is one way we fail to love God. Another is to disregard or violate His order in creation, an order that reveals a hierarchy and binary distinctions such as male-female, heaven-earth, life-death.Alice C. Linsleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13069827354696169270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-688820610845171516.post-38843751377555175012011-08-28T00:02:44.409-07:002011-08-28T00:02:44.409-07:00This account of the fall of man after disobeying G...This account of the fall of man after disobeying GOD has often been interpreted as just disobedience. By going against the order of creation they listening to the created for leadership instead of the CREATOR, valuing knowledge ahead of life. the tree of life was also there in the middle of the garden. Would it not have made more sense to eat of the fruit of that tree rather than that of knowledge of good and evil?<br /><br />This choice, the expression of our free will, in a way exemplifies how man has fallen short of the Glory of GOD. Today,many of us seek to acquire knowledge, even false knowledge, for the purpose of self-glorification, thus putting the cart before the horse. Many today even deny GOD because of the delusion that they are where they are by their own effort. Many do not seek HIS guidance for every area of their life including career, family, romance, various types of relationships, spiritual, and so on. Just as the tree of knowledge appeared attractive in the eyes the woman, the knowledge that seems to be in abundance today appears pleasant. Many don't even seek the LOGOS.<br /><br />"Daniel 12:4: But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, [even] to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased".<br /><br />No wonder YESHUA tells us to get the order right by seeking the Kingdom of GOD first, and HIS righteousness. Isn't this kingdom is the tree of life, the fruit being eternal life?<br /><br />"Matthew 6:33: But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you".<br /><br />YTAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-688820610845171516.post-7618222260076921322009-03-14T14:16:00.000-07:002009-03-14T14:16:00.000-07:00That's correct, Roland. In the order of creation, ...That's correct, Roland. In the order of creation, the serpent should have been subject to humans and humans subject to the Creator. Neither was created to be subject to the fallen angel called Lucifer. Think in terms of a standing ladder with rungs. God and Heaven are at the highest rung of the ladder. Adam is the head over Eve (his rib) and Lucifer, having been cast down, is at the bottom. He attempts to rise to the top. The easiest way to accomplish this is the invert the ladder.<BR/><BR/>The inversion of the ladder is the inversion of reality. What is real and true is turned on its head and presented to the unsuspecting as the real and true. We live in an age when most people are fooled, it seems.Alice C. Linsleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13069827354696169270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-688820610845171516.post-40497919841755163162009-03-06T17:32:00.000-08:002009-03-06T17:32:00.000-08:00Interesting. Chrysostom sees the serpent not as an...Interesting. Chrysostom sees the serpent not as an embodiment of the devil, but as a tool recruited by the devil. And the serpent should properly have been subject to the direction of Adam and Eve, not of the devil.Arimatheanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06783088995172601340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-688820610845171516.post-5019280080410518202009-02-25T14:13:00.000-08:002009-02-25T14:13:00.000-08:00St. John Chrysostom's Homilies on Genesis are publ...St. John Chrysostom's Homilies on Genesis are published in full in a series on the Fathers of the Church published by The Catholic University of America Press, Washington D.C.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for visiting!Alice C. Linsleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13069827354696169270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-688820610845171516.post-41790916200791752662009-02-25T08:03:00.000-08:002009-02-25T08:03:00.000-08:00Thanks for the link, i've been looking for St. Chy...Thanks for the link, i've been looking for St. Chyrsostom's genesis homilies for free online, seems like i'll have to to buy the who thing. This was a good preview though, Thanks.Taphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04375511506567572806noreply@blogger.com