tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-688820610845171516.post8533277557824928201..comments2024-03-24T11:03:03.106-07:00Comments on Just Genesis : St. John Chrysostom on LamechAlice C. Linsleyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13069827354696169270noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-688820610845171516.post-32593860620219768492007-07-29T05:28:00.000-07:002007-07-29T05:28:00.000-07:00Hope, this from Donne (d. 1631)says it all."God ma...Hope, this from Donne (d. 1631)says it all.<BR/><BR/>"God made Sun and Moon to distinguish seasons, and day, and night, and we cannot have the fruits of the earth but in their seasons. But God hath made no decree to distinguish the seasons of his mercies. In paradise, the fruits were ripe the first minute, and in heaven it is always Autumn: his mercies are ever in their maturity…<BR/><BR/>He brought light out of darkness, not out of a lesser light; he can bring thy Summer out of Winter, though thou have no Spring. Though in the ways of fortune, or understanding, or conscience, thou have been benighted till now, wintered, and frozen, clouded and eclipsed, damped and benumbed, smothered and stupefied till now, now God comes to thee, not as in the dawning of the day, not as in the bud of the spring, but as the Sun at noon to illustrate all shadows, as the sheaves in harvest, to fill all penuries. All occasions invite his mercies, and all times are his seasons."<BR/><BR/>John Donne, quoted in Ordinary Graces, Edited by Lorraine KislyAlice C. Linsleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13069827354696169270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-688820610845171516.post-38447598594266691312007-07-29T04:39:00.000-07:002007-07-29T04:39:00.000-07:00Farstrider,A few things to keep in mind.The kinshi...Farstrider,<BR/><BR/>A few things to keep in mind.<BR/><BR/>The kinship pattern I'm describing pertains only to chiefs, those who ascend to the governance of their father's territory. <BR/><BR/>Before one could ascend, he had to have two wives. This explains Abraham's urgency to see Isaac with a (second?) wife before he dies. Why does it appear that Rebekah is a second wife? Notice where the servant brings her to meet Isaac? Not to Hebron, Sarah's home, but to Beersheba, Keturah's home. Isaac apparently had already married a half-sister, as Abraham had done when he married Sarah (and as Terah had done before Abraham, and Nahor before Terah).<BR/><BR/>The proper marriage arrangement for chiefs among Abraham's people was a half-sister and a patrilineal parallel cousin. Keturah was a patrilineal parallel cousin to Abraham. From her were born to Abraham 5 sons. None of these were to ascend to govern Abraham's territory extending from Hebron to Beersheba. That territory would be ruled by Isaac, but Isaac still had to live and cooperate with his 5 brothers, some of whom were very important. (Midian is the progenitor of the Midianites who will later help Moses bring the Israelites out of Egypt. Moses married 2 wives, one was Cushite and the other was a Midianite patrilineal parallel cousin, Zipporah.)<BR/><BR/>The bride's naming prerogative is to designate to whom the first-born son belonged. Half-sisters didn't need to name their first-born sons after their fathers because those sons already belonged to the ruling father. Patrilineal parallel cousins often did name their first born son after their fathers, especially if the son might ascend. This is because the bride belonged to her husband's house, but the first born son of the cousin bride belonged to the bride's father's house.<BR/><BR/>Cain and Seth were brothers. They married their patrilineal parallel cousins who named their first born sons after their father, Enoch/Nok. From this we understand that Genesis 4 and 5 represents an ancient intact genealogical segment that was regarded as honorable among Abraham's descendents. But it is not about the house of Adam. It is about the house of Nok.<BR/><BR/>I'll be writing more on this when I post on the genealogy of Moses.Alice C. Linsleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13069827354696169270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-688820610845171516.post-65487343863817812192007-07-29T01:15:00.000-07:002007-07-29T01:15:00.000-07:00Alice, Fascinating as always. I wonder about a con...Alice, <BR/><BR/>Fascinating as always. I wonder about a connection that you seem to be drawing, though. Within the "box" you write: <BR/><BR/> <I>"Further exploration of this segment reveals that the bride named her firstborn son after her father, suggesting that the son belonged to her father’s house while the bride belonged to her father’s house. Levi-Strauss observed in 1949 that in a patrilineal system, mother and child do not belong to the same clan."</I><BR/><BR/>And then within the main text you write, <I>"Their relationship sheds light on the kinship pattern that characterized rulers among Abraham's people."</I><BR/><BR/>It is late and I've been parsing verbs all day, so I may be missing something, but... I'll speak on.<BR/><BR/>How do the relationships and the naming of Lamech's son tell us anything about the kinship patterns of rulers among Abraham's people?<BR/><BR/>From Genesis 12 on we never (or at least rarely) see this custom of a bride naming her firstborn son after her father-- and this includes those in Abraham's line. Moreover, Abraham's sons are very clearly of <I>his</I> clan, and not Sarah's father's and the same goes for his descendants. Consider also the later priestly and kingly lines-- all follow the lines we would expect: father to son to grandson and so on.<BR/><BR/>I have trouble accepting Levi Strauss's observations as well. Most "patrilineal" societies (which is to say most societies by far) do not operate the way he suggests they do. Perhaps he was speaking of certain patrilineal societies in a very specific context?<BR/><BR/>My first reaction, anyway.<BR/><BR/>Blessings,<BR/><BR/>fsfarstriderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04724075513973540071noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-688820610845171516.post-62300224261376561332007-07-28T11:06:00.000-07:002007-07-28T11:06:00.000-07:00Yes...Everything God does demonstrates His grace. ...Yes...Everything God does demonstrates His grace. I truly appreciate the concept that "some are chosen, yet the others are blessed." Oh, that those that are blessed might choose to belong to the "chosen" through faith in Jesus Christ our Savior.Hopiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09346214794525107682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-688820610845171516.post-51858685744260155612007-07-27T07:30:00.000-07:002007-07-27T07:30:00.000-07:00Our faith is not based on this information. It is ...Our faith is not based on this information. It is based on the Apostolic witness that Jesus is God Incarnate, that He died and rose again and is alive as Head of the Church and that by grace we have been made a part of his Body. Our faith rests on the divine Person of Jesus Christ, the very image of the Father, to whom the Holy Spirit witnesses and the angels ever sing praise.<BR/><BR/>This information matters because it affects the way we understand or interpret the Bible. It points us to God's love for us sinners, an undeserved love. It is part of a larger pattern that is seen throughout the Bible. Here we find again the idea that one line is chosen, but the other line is still blessed. This happens between brothers all the way through the Bible. Moses was chosen over his brothers Aaron and Korah, but even Korah's rebellion against Moses' authority does not lead to his being cut off from the land of the living (Numbers 26:11). Abraham is chosen over his brothers (like Moses and David, Abraham was the youngest) and yet his brother Nahor is blessed by God also. When we assume that Lamech's line was destroyed we impose something on the text that the text does not support and which is in fact contrary to the message God is communicating to us.<BR/><BR/>If anyone deserved to be "cut off from the land of the living" (no progeny) it was the braggart and murderer Lamech who set himself up as God. Yet God allowed Lamech's line to continue and to flow into the line of Messiah. St. John Chrysosotom has edifying comments on this unfathomable grace as it relates to Lamech. I will post on this next.<BR/><BR/>(Anam Cara, you are always at least one step ahead of me! God bless you!)Alice C. Linsleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13069827354696169270noreply@blogger.com