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Showing posts with label dating techniques. Show all posts
Showing posts with label dating techniques. Show all posts

Monday, May 4, 2015

Is Scientific Dating Reliable?

This faux amphibolite formation, found at Nuvvuagittuq greenstone belt in northern Quebec, 
may be  a portion of Earth's primordial crust. It dates to 4.28 billion years ago.
Credit: Don Francis

Alice C. Linsley

I am often asked if carbon 14 dating of fossils is reliable. People who make a habit of distrusting science point to this one method and claim that it is flawed. They seem unaware that there are many methods by which to date rocks, fossils and artifacts, and that carbon dating techniques are continuously refined. I recommend watching this video.

Even if C14 dating is wrong by 50%, we still have thousands of human artifacts that are 20 to 50 thousand years old. How can this be if the Earth is only 6000 years old? Obviously, the young earth theory has many flaws, not the least of which is the perpetuation of the idea that the Genesis creation accounts must be taken literally and Ussher's calculations using the Genesis King Lists can be used to establish the age of the earth.


Carbon 14

Fossils and rocks are dated by chemical means that rely on carbon dating which has a variance due to climate changes. Radiocarbon is continuously produced in the upper atmosphere at fairly constant levels. The radiocarbon from the atmosphere is incorporated into all living organisms on earth. Once the organisms die, the radioactive isotope decays at a known rate, so by measuring the radiocarbon levels remaining in samples scientists can work out how old things are. In the past this was done by burning a small sample of the object. Today there is a better method involving plasma oxidation chambers used to oxidize the object’s surface. This slower method does less damage to the artifact.

When molten rock cools radioactive atoms are trapped inside the igneous rock. Afterwards, the atoms decay at a predictable rate. By measuring the quantity of unstable atoms left in a rock and comparing it to the quantity of stable daughter atoms in the rock, scientists can estimate the amount of time that has passed since that rock formed.

Tree rings are also helpful in dating, but the atmospheric carbon from tree rings only goes back to about 13,000 years. That is why scientists were very excited about the sedimentary cores extracted from Lake Suigetsu in Japan. These cores extend back to 52,800- 60,000 years ago. Dating of climate changes is tracked through terrestrial core samples and also the Greenland ice cores.

With carbon dating scientists provide as accurate a range as possible. Something might be dated between 8,000 and 12,000 years old, for example. The range is because the initial amounts of radiocarbon in the environment incorporated into growing organisms vary slightly from year to year and between different parts of the carbon cycle worldwide.


Other Dating Methods

Besides radiometric dating, scientists have techniques for analyzing the breakdown of amino acids. Amino acid dating is used to estimate the age of a specimen in paleobiology, molecular paleontology, archaeology, forensic science, taphonomy, sedimentary geology and other fields. This technique relates changes in amino acid molecules to the time elapsed since they were formed.

All biological tissues contain amino acids. All amino acids except glycine are optically active, having a stereocenter at their α-C atom. This means that the amino acid can have two different configurations, "D" or "L" which are mirror images of each other. With a few important exceptions, living organisms keep all their amino acids in the "L" configuration. When an organism dies, control over the configuration of the amino acids ceases, and the ratio of D to L moves from a value near 0 towards an equilibrium value near 1, a process called racemization. Thus, measuring the ratio of D to L in a sample enables one to estimate how long ago the specimen died. The Amino Acid Racemization Dating Method has been around since the early 1970s. 

Dating is also measured by changes in an object's magnetic field. When the magma from which igneous rocks form is still molten, iron-rich minerals can orient themselves in line with the local magnetic field in the same way that a compass needle does. As the magma cools, the iron crystals are frozen in their orientation in the solid rock. This provides a record of the orientation of the local magnetic field at that time. Paleomagnetics has identified 171 magnetic reversals in the last 76 million years. Geologists developed the paleomagnetic dating technique to measure the movements of the magnetic north pole over geologic time after World War II.

By using lasers researchers can measure parent and daughter atoms in extremely small amounts of matter. This Laser Ablation Spectrometer technique is being refined by NASA for use in dating rocks on Mars. 

Another system of dating fossils is called “bracketing.” Fossils are generally found in sedimentary rock rather than igneous rock. Sedimentary rocks can be dated using radioactive carbon, but because carbon decays relatively quickly, this only works for fossils less than about 50,000 years. To date older fossils scientists look for layers of igneous rock or volcanic ash above and below the fossils. By dating these surrounding layers, they can establish the range.

This method requires understanding how the fossils are affected by geological events like rifts, erosion, folds, etc. which can disturb the layers. Scientists know what to look for to confirm dating and they give as accurate as possible ranges. A certain marine fossil may be dated to between 130,000 and 124,000 years and because it is a marine fossils, we know that the area where it was recovered was once a sea.

To determine the ages of human fossils that are millions of years, scientists need an isotope with a very long half-life. Isotopes used for this purpose are uranium-238, uranium-235, potassium-40, horium-232 and rubidium-87, all found in the human body. Each of these isotopes has a half-life of more than a million years.


Dating of Humans

Two kinds of data are needed in order to obtain a date estimate from present-day Y chromosomes: information about the genetic diversity of the Y chromosomes, and a measure of the mutation rate of the loci used to determine the diversity. Over the last two decades, Y-chromosomal studies have increasingly used Y-STRs to measure genetic diversity. The commonly used Y-STRs are variable in all populations (http://www.yhrd.org/) and mutate quickly enough that their mutation rates can be measured in deep-rooting families or father–son pairs, and refined using information from levels of population variation. Thus Y-STR mutation rates are now estimated with some precision. (Read more here.)

Mitochondrial DNA L groups are extremely archaic. In human mitochondrial genetics, L is the mitochondrial DNA macro-haplogroup that is at the root of the human mtDNA phylogenetic tree. As such, it represents the most ancestral mitochondrial lineage of all currently living modern humans. All modern humans have ancestry that is traced to Africa.

Of special interest to biblical anthropologists is YDNA Haplogroup R1. YDNA R1b is found widely in Africa, the Middle East, Southern Europe, Spain, France, and the British Isles. The dispersion of R1b peoples took place over thousands of years, beginning about 20,000 years ago. Most biblical populations are in this haplogroup. Abraham's ancestors came out of central Africa near Lake Chad and the Upper Nile. Note the dark red spots in those places. The dark spot in central Africa is the region of Lake Chad, Noah's homeland.




Dating Scripture

Dating the Bible is as much a science as dating fossils and rocks. There are few methods that render absolute dates and scholars who study manuscripts likewise date material by giving ranges. One attempt to scientifically date the Pentateuch relies on a chronology established through synchronisms dated by astronomy. The ranges of time for the older Biblical material tend to be greater than for the more recent material. The dating of New Testament books cannot be set with absolute confidence so scholars often give a range, but the range is a matter of a few years or a decade, not a thousand years as is more often the case with the material in Genesis and Exodus. For example, the book of Romans is typically given a range of A.D. 56-58. In the dating of the books and events described in the Bible scholars rely on data found in the Bible and on extra-Biblical sources to help narrow the range. Archaeology, anthropology and linguistics have been especially helpful sciences in the service of Biblical scholarship.


Tuesday, March 17, 2015

Facebook Conversation on Creationism


Alice C. Linsley

In the following Facebook thread some friends asked excellent questions and I asked their permission to post this at JUST GENESIS. This is the sort of conversation that can help people sort through the issues.

The conversation arose in response to this article about the discovery of trillions of stone artifacts in Africa. The article was posted by a Christian geologist. If humans have been on the earth only 5000-6000 years, they could not have produced the volume of work found at the stone working sites in Africa. At 40 million artifacts per year, it would take a population of 100,000 individuals 100,000 years to produce just 4 trillion artifacts.


  • Can there be a a conversation or a dialectic between the facts that make for one's faith and the narrative of "Genesis" that makes for the faith of "creationists" regarding the age of the earth and the origin of man. Can such a dialogue be possible?  - Sidney Davis

  • Alice Linsley Everything is possible, Sidney, but some conversations are less possible than others. Defining the term "creationist" is where we have to begin. There are different groups: young earth creationism, which is neither scientific nor Biblical; theistic creationism which is very popular with Evangelicals who accept evolutionary theories, some of which have no material support; old earth creationists who believe the Creator initiated creative or generative processes that resulted in humans, and old earth creationists who believe that humans represent a special creation, a sort of crown on the creation pyramid. Some of these are mutually exclusive positions and a dialectic between them is virtually impossible. I find it a waste of time to discuss Genesis with people who believe that the earth is only 6000 years old.

  • Jarold Williams My brain is defective, and so my opinion is not an intellectual one. But I think it doesn't matter, nor will we ever know, how old or young the earth is. What does matter to me is that God created everything that exists.

  • Chris Ali I wonder if they considered in their estimate of 10,000 artifacts per person that people lived longer during that time? If one person made 100 artifacts per day in his life time he would actually end up making over 18 millions artifacts. So if they calculate 18 million artifacts per person to their 20 generations x 100,000 formula then the young earth proponents may be right.

  • Kelly Trafford Marshall What is your opinion, Alice?

  • Alice Linsley Jarold, the earth is billions of years old, and the universe is even older.

  • Alice Linsley Chris, there is no evidence that people lived longer in the times before Noah (c. 3000 BC). The numbers assigned to the rulers who lived before the deluge are symbolic. Lamech the Younger, the father of Noah, lived 777 years, for example. Lamech the Elder, his father-in-law, sought God's grace 7 times what his ancestor Kain received. As St. John Chrysostom recognized, the line of Cain received great mercy. Not only 7 fold for Cain, but 77 fold for Lamech the Elder (Gen. 4:24), and 777 in the case of Lamech the Younger (Gen. 5:31).

  • Alice Linsley Kelly, I am an old earth creationist who believes that humans are a special creation, which is why they appear suddenly as fully human about 4 million years ago. I believe that the unity of organic life is not explained by Darwin's theories, but by the reality that all things were made in and through the One who also sustains all things.

  • Kelly Trafford Marshall So with the family tree in scripture, how do you get to 4 million years?

  • Alice Linsley Adam and Eve in Genesis represent the founding parents of the "red" people from whom Abraham, Moses, David and Jesus come. However, later Biblical writers pose them as the first created humans. Adam comes from Ha-dam, meaning blood, red color. This is known to be an extremely ancient genetic line. It is associated with the R1b haplogroup which still has the largest concentration in Upper Nile and around Lake Chad. The Upper Nile and Lake Chad are were the Rulers named in Genesis 4 and 5 lived. Noah was a ruler int he region of Lake Chad, which is the only place on earth that claims to be his homeland - Bor-No (Land of Noah). See this map:

  • Alice Linsley The oldest human fossils are dated to about 3.8 million years. This genetic lineage is believed to be about 20,000 years. I believe it is older, possibly 100,000 years. The Genesis narrative suggests that Abraham had a distinctive red skin tone that is associated with other rulers in this lineage: Esau and David. Analysis of the marriage and ascendancy pattern of the Edomites reveals that it is identical to that of Abraham's Nilotic ancestors. This is what would be expected if Abraham is a descendant of both Ham and Shem.

    The Edomites may have been kin to the red Nubians. The Shasu of Nubia also lived in Edom. The red skin tone is a more dominant trait in HG R1b. The majority of men in England, Scotland and Ireland are in this Haplogroup.

  • Chris Ali Alice. What about the next verse after Genesis 5:41 that says "after Noah was 500 years old"? Is that symbolic as well?

  • Alice Linsley Yes, Chris. Scholars recognize that the numbers of years assigned to rulers in the ancient world was symbolic on many levels. The Sumerian king lists assign reigns of thousands of years, for example. Longevity claims for only eight Sumerian kings totaled 241,200 years. The reign of the Persian king Zahhak was said to be 1000 years. We shouldn't get hung up on the ages of the Biblical rulers. The fact that the Genesis king lists reflect a practice this old, means we are dealing with authentic material.

  • Alice Linsley  Kelly, here is a fuller explanation.

    JANDYONGENESIS.BLOGSPOT.COM|BY ALICE LINSLEY

  • Alice Linsley Kelly, Here is a fuller explanation about the millions of years between the first created humans and Kain.

    JANDYONGENESIS.BLOGSPOT.COM|BY ALICE LINSLEY

  • Kelly Trafford Marshall That's fascinating, Alice. If I had been taught these things in my college religion classes, I would have stuck with it!

  • Chris Ali Thanks Alice. I will be reading these later on. I have one more question. Proponents of young earth say that the the scientific methods used to date things is not accurate. For example, carbon dating, etc. In your opinion how accurate or reliable are these methods?

  • Alice Linsley Radio carbon dating is one method of dating, and it is used along with other methods, such as stratography, a systematic approach that involves bracketing. The ranges are based on all the data gathered. When something is dated between 12,000 - 8,000 years BP (before the present), we can be confident in saying that it dates to about 10,000 PB.  I am often asked if carbon 14 dating is reliable. People who distrust science point to this one method and claim that it is flawed. They seem unaware that there are many methods by which to date rocks and fossils, and that carbon dating techniques are continuously refined. Besides radiometric dating, scientists analyze the breakdown of amino acids. This amino acid racemization dating method has been around since the early 1970s. Dating is also measured by changes in an object's magnetic field.

  • Chris Ali Why do some Christians think that the old earth theory supports the theory of evolution?

  • Alice Linsley Because they have been presented with a false choice between Biblical literalism (poorly done) or Darwinian evolution (poorly done). The problem is one of inadequate education, lack of information, and false interpretations. We have to get Genesis right. It is the foundation of the whole of the Bible. Young earth creationism has caused many people to reject the Bible. They do not see that it is a reliable source of information. See this: 


  • Darwin's observations of the complexity, diversity and...
    JANDYONGENESIS.BLOGSPOT.COM|BY ALICE LINSLEY

  • Dwight Huthwaite Do you feel that time could have been impacted by the fall in addition to man and creation?

Alice Linsley Time was created by God for constancy. Just as some stars are fixed for navigation. Just as the sun always rises in the east for orientation. Just as the constellations move in a clock like pattern so that we can predict cycles. There are some features of creation which are fixed and beyond man's reach; beyond the ability of man to have an impact on them. There is nothing in Scripture to indicate that time was affected by the Fall.